Tuesday 25 May 2010

Mill Hill ERUV - Can we have a debate?

As someone who lives within the boundary of the proposed Mill Hill ERUV, I have been watching with increasing alarm how the debate is progressing on the website of the Edgware and Mill Hill Times. Check out some of the comments on this story :-

http://www.times-series.co.uk/news/8174565.Eruv_application_handed_to_council/?ref=mc

In the title of this blog, I asked "Can we have a debate?". Actually I'm not asking the question you thought I was asking, which is whether the people of Mill Hill should all get a say in this decision. I am asking whether we are capable of having a sensible and civilised discussion on the subject. The level of comments I've seen opposing the ERUV indicate that opposition is based on a loathing of religious observance and in some cases anti semitism. Given that the actual ERUV fence will have virtually no impact on anyone, it seems to me that any such problems can be dealt with simply enough by good and sympathetic design.

Which brings us to the question of how the ERUV will affect Mill Hill in other ways. It is likely to have a positive effect on the property prices of houses such as mine which fall within the ERUV area. As my house is a quick walk from the Shul, I might reasonably expect that it's value will be enhanced as people would wish to purchase a property within the ERUV area. The downside of this is that those living just the other side of the ERUV are likely to see their houses marginally devalued. I expect that should the proposal go ahead, a question which estate agents will have to get used to answering is "Is the house within the ERUV". For any observant orthodox Jew, presumably this could be a deal breaker if the answer is no.

The ERUV is likely to lead to a concentration of Orthodox Jewish people within the ERUV area and a depletion of this population outside. Given that the Jewish population is generally law abiding, is this a problem? Well it is clearly a problem for any anti semites who happen to live within Mill Hill, but what about the wider community. I was struck by how much Mill Hill had changed when I recently stood for the Council elections. I visited many homes which I used to deliver papers to as a delivery boy 30 odd year ago. At the time I cannot remember a single customer who was black or Asian (apart from Mickey Mosts maid). There has been a massive influx of people and a massive outflow of older people. I was struck by how the demographics have changed. As a practising Roman Catholic it is clear to me that our church is fuller than ever, mainly due to eastern Europeans and African immigrants. The point is that areas change with or without ERUVs. If a large Mosque was to open in Mill Hill, we'd see an influx of Moslems. Would this be a reason to oppose the Mosque?

Organisations such as the BNP seek to put the clock back and dream of a world of warm beer and white anglo saxon Christians.  This world no longer exists in Mill Hill. We are a multi cultural society and we all get on pretty well. Is the ERUV likely to change this? Well no one will be forced to become an Orthodox Jew. The ERUV won't be accompanied by a recruitment drive or knocks on the door as the Jehovas Witnesses, Mill Hills other large religious establishment practice. Will non Jews be forced to get out of the area against their will? No, but if they decide to move, they will get more money for their house. All sounds good so far. What about non jewish families who have lived in Mill Hill all their lives and have children who wish to buy property in Mill Hill? Well this is an issue. It will become more expensive and difficult and will over time see long standing Mill Hill families move out purely for financial reasons. This does concern me, because I love the area and whilst I have no objections to newcomers, I would like to see the "Mill Hill Community" continue.

I have spoken to many Jewish friends about the proposal. You may be surprised to hear that the majority (though not all) are against the proposal (yes I know my friends are not necessarily representative). They prefer a diverse Mill Hill and feel that an Orthodox Jewish monoculture would be a bad thing for the wider Jewish community. The friends who are reformed Jews feel that the development would be a step backwards. One friend who is a particularly vociferous opponent, who comes from a Polish background and who lost family members in the Holocaust said that the last thing we need is a Jewish ghetto in Mill Hill. He feels that it would actually flag the area up as a target for anti semites and cause resentment within the local community. He is of the opinion that those people who are championing the proposal haven't properly thought the whole issue through. His view is that all residents of Mill Hill should be given the opportunity to take part in a referendum on the issue. That is how things are managed in Switzerland and he quite likes it.

As to my own views. I really haven't made up my mind. I believe in freedom of religious expression, so I wouldn't oppose it on these grounds. We have to live and let live. As to whether I'd vote yes or no if we had a referendum. I don't know as yet, I'm leaning towards yes, but my friend makes some powerful arguments. I suspect that Barnet Council don't trust us Council Taxpayers enough to actually let us choose, so it's all academic, but I for one would like to see a proper debate occur. I would like to see a decision where everyone participated occur. I would hope that we could have a proper, unemotional and sensible debate and get a decision which Mill Hill was comfortable with. Is that too much to ask for?

Please note that on this post, I will delete any comments that I deem to be offensive or anti semitic. I want to see a debate not a slanging match.

13 comments:

Mrs T said...

I think the only debate we need to have is whether Rog T is a closet anti semite

Mrs Angry said...

I remember all this fuss about the first eruv proposal, and sadly, it is a highly divisive issue that seems to appeal to the worst instincts of intolerance in some people. Answer then to your question, no, I think: unfortunately, we cannot have a sensible debate as many people seem incapable of seeing this issue in perspective. Why? For all sorts of reasons: there are many different views, as you have pointed out, within the different traditions of the Jewish community itself: not all recognise the validity or necessity of an eruv.

The important point, surely, is that a large section does want this and it will benefit them with very little impact on anyone else, so where is the problem? What happened after the original eruv was installed? Did the world come to an end? No. I now live yards away from the eruv line and only noticed one of the poles a couple of years ago: they are not intrusive - if they were, I would object too. Far, far worse planning proposals have been approved by Barnet council in recent times.

Each planning application should be taken on its own merits, regardless of pressure from lobby groups or other interested parties. The impact on the immediate environment should be the primary consideration: unfortunately, this is not always the case.

If people want to take an interest in planning issues in Mill Hill, I suggest that they read your latest blog on the Green Belt business venture on the Ridgeway whioh is apparently, and incredibly, being allowed by the council to function without planning permission, and on land owned by the local Conservative party's deputy Chairman.

Mrs Angry said...

Sorry: I have just seen the repulsive comment just made by Mike Freer's blogger 'Mrs T' - Rog, I would take legal advice.

Rog T said...

Dear Mrs Angry,

Let me share an amazing coincidence with you. This is from my stats. I draw no conclusions whatsoever about the timing of the visit and neither should you - Sorry it's a bit unreadable, but it's a direct cut and paste

Greater London Authority (213.86.122.5) [Label IP Address]

United Kingdom London, United Kingdom, 136 returning visits

Date Time Type WebPage
25th May 2010 10:26:49 Page View No referring link
www.barneteye.blogspot.com/
25th May 2010 10:38:53 Exit Link https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=9215006984353817373&postID=4323882165746444143

Brian Coleman aka Mr Toad has GOT to go said...

Rog, can you remind me please - has the (risible) suggestion that you might be anti-Semitic ever been made before?

If so, can you remind me of who may have suggested it and in what circumstances please?

Incidentally, I'm chuckling at the thought that someone who wears their heart on their sleeve as you do - could be a closet anything at all.

Best as ever.

Joe

Rog T said...

Dear Mr Toad has got to go,

Sadly the only thing in my closet is a few crates of beer, a few old tins of paint and my dad's old RAF uniform.

I wish I had a secret life of intrigue and mystery, but sadly I don't.

As to the charge of anti-semitism. Rather oddly this was once raised by a promenant local Methodist as the reason I initiated a Standards Complaint against him. Luckily for me the Rabbi who chaired the panel saw through his cunning ruse and found him guilty as charged.

Mrs Angry said...

Good Lord, Mr Tichborne: just seen your astounding information about your blog visitor from the GLA at 10.26 am. Is that not, as you say, an extraordinary coincidence? Can you think of anyone we all know who 'works' at the GLA who might have an interest in your blog? Of course there is absolutely no conclusion that one might draw from this revelation. Other than the flipping obvious. Absolutely unbelievable behaviour, verging on the deranged. I suggest that the person behind 'Mrs T' might like to apologise for his comments, and perhaps Mr Freer and the local Conservative party would like to publicly disassociate themselves from this person's remarks? It hardly reflects well on our newly elected parliamentary representative, does it?

Moaneybat said...

I would have to strongly agree with your friends. If any of your friends have family in Lyon, France, they might tell you about the increase in anti-semitism. It is not pleasant. On the hand, why should the orthodox minority of that faith not have an ERUV after al we as a nation have signed up to:
Article 9 – Freedom of thought, conscience and religion
1. Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, and to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.

2. Freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are PRESCRIBED By LAW and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

The orthodox minority should have ERUV, it IS A RIGHT that SHOULD NOT require planning permission

What I understood amid the sarcasm and historical references in the Times Series comments is, We do need to have a discussion on a related but wider issue and, in context of 'Teaching religion and outwardly manifest signs' in our schools and workplaces.

I'm a Roman Catholic due to Saul,(Who was not a Catholic) without my permission, it's personal to me as to how I practice my faith or how I wish my family not to practice it. However I will RESPECT those who wish to do so.

Mrs Angry, should you stand at the next election, you might just get my vote for commonsense.

Crusty said...

There's absolutely no reason why an Eruv shouldn't be erected in Mill Hill. The existing Eruv that takes part of Mill Hill East is discreet to the point that you would really have to struggle to notice the poles holding it up.

Mill Hill has a thriving Jewish community - not all of it Orthodox - and if it helps our observant friends to do simple tasks on Shabbat then why not?

As to "Mrs. T" get on a bus you waster.

Anonymous said...

Hi Rog T,

I remember reading about this "Eruv" thing when I lived in Hendon in the early 80s and I still wonder now what I wondered then which is why can't the M25 be the Eruv? That way job done; for the whole of London!

Funny you knew Mickey Most's maid - so did I. That was in the 90s though - a lovely Filipina girl who was mates with my Filipina wife.

d said...

Do you have a link to the map of the proposed eruv.
thank you.

Jaybird said...

There was a really great exhibition at the Photographers Gallery of photos of discreet posts and wires around Hampstead Garden Suburb, juxtaposed with the extraordinarily vituperative comments in the local press during that planning process.

I definitely do not have a problem with an eruv. I do have a problem with faith schools, of any faith, which I think are hugely divisive and inappropriate. I know you went to Finchley Catholic Grammar, so you may not agree with me.

I have to say that I think the new Government's policy on free schools is a recipe for disaster. It makes no sense when on the other hand the Government is spending money on trying to improve community cohesion and integration.

Mrs Angry said...

Still wondering what 'Finchley housewife' MrsT is apparently doing at the GLA? Just visiting a chum? Or maybe has a part time job: tea lady, PA, something like that? Gets about a bit, doesn't she?