I daresay that this particular blog will upset a few people. Sometimes harsh things have to be said. Don't get me wrong, I support many of the policies of the green party, but now the Green party have an MP and they want to be taken seriously, we need to have a closer look at what they are, what they support, what they stand for and who supports them. In a letter to the Hendon Times Donald Lyven, green party candidate states that they doubled their vote. Well I have this question, how many votes did the greens get in Burnt Oak? The answer , none. They couldn't be bothered to stand (Check for yourself if you don't believe me - http://www.barnet.gov.uk/burnt-oak-elections2010-2.pdf). Now is this because burnt Oak has the most superb environment in the Borough of Barnet? Is it because everyone in Burnt Oak already buys organic? Is it because everyone in Burnt Oak already drives a Prius?
Nope, none of these reasons would apply. If anywhere needs it's environment improving in Barnet it's Burnt Oak. Where are the legions of Green Party activists fighting for better conditions for kids in the most run down area of the Borough. Where is the campaign to preserve the habitats? So why ignore Burnt Oak and campaign in the next door ward of Mill Hill? Well in terms of the quality of environment, Mill Hill is clearly less in need of a bit of "greening" than Burnt Oak. Unlike working class Burnt Oak, middle class Mill Hill is seen by the greens as a happy hunting ground. You see when you are asking for cash, the population of Mill Hill has more wonga in their wallet. A nice green campaigner outside Waitrose, grabbing people as they emerge with their organic wholefood tofu burgers is far more likely to stick their hands in their wallets than a harrassed single mum buying her beans in Burnt Oak. You see the "highly principled" green campaigners don't care about the people who need environmental champions the most. They care about the people with the dosh.
On the election night I was having a bit of a laugh with Tory Mill Hill candidate, John Hart. He told me he loved the greens in Mill Hill "They are our fifth column". John knew that they would take votes most likely to go to the Lib Dems. John said that if he won he'd take them out for a drink.He then said something else. He said that Matthew Offord won the election in Burnt Oak. He said "The 600 votes we picked up there was the difference". John Hart understands the world of real politics. Even the Tories campaign in Burnt Oak. Even the Tories care more about the people at the bottom of the pile than the Greens. Whilst I will always fight the corner for the environment and the green belt, I consider the Greens to be a disgrace. Any supposedly national party which doesn't care about those at the bottom of the pile should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. There really is no excuse.
9 comments:
Rog, your behaving like a complete arse again. I did not state in a letter anything of the sort. What is your problem? Is this the new politics? slagging off other parties because of your own twisted logic? You're the one who should be thoroughly ashamed.
Call me on 07939-021480 and I'll explain.
Donald Lyven - Barnet Green Party
Donald,
I'm behaving like a complete arse am I? I merely quoted what you said in your letter to the Times. I also put a link to the letter (if you click on it, you'll link to it), so people could see your comments and see whether I was being unfair.
As I said in the post, the Greens seek to be treated like a real party, but as soon as they are criticised, call people arses who deploy twisted logic.
Why do I need to ring you? Just leave a comment here telling me how I've got it wrong. There's no censorship on comments here. If I ring you and then follow it up, you'll doubtless say I've twisted what you said. You can write, leave an explanation here.
If you guys have a proper reason for giving Burnt Oak a wide berth, whilst targetting well off middle class areas, tell us.
I'm afraid that if you just throw your toys out of the pram and start calling people rude names, merely because they find your strategy shameful, you will loose whatever credibility you had.
*lose
Perhaps small politcal parties have to prioritise the parts where they think they have the best chance. It doesnt imply elitism at all, your interpretation is pretty crazy if you ask me!
Adam,
The greens have virtually no chance of winning anywhere in Barnet - look at the results. Given that they are likely to take results from the centre-left, it strikes me as crazy that they stand in marginal wards where they are likely to let the party with the worst green credentials in.
I've posted hundreds of blogs about green issues and in support of causes they support, but they deliberately targetted Mill Hill ward. Given that the local Lib Dems had a superb record on green issues and it was highly marginal, it seems to me to be a completely cynical move to snag rich supporters.
Why did they ignore Burnt Oak, where there is ample scope for improvement, no local green champions and they could attract many votes if they ran a good campaign?
Is it because the greens are a purely middle class party or is it because they are completely cynical and put their own funds above the Barnet environment? If they'd stood in every ward, that's fine they could say they were ensuring there was a presence, but why not stand at least one candidate in Burnt Oak. Whether it's cynicism or snobbery it stinks to me
Rog, just because you read something in the newspapers doesn't make it true... I did not say all what you read. You have made a wrong assumption based on an editorial error. And If I call you an arse it is my own view and nothing to do with my party, as I'm sure all you write is not a reflection on how the Lib Dems view the world.
Our Party doesn't have legions of people able to do everything, and there are perfectly legitimate reasons why we stood and could not stand in various Wards. I happen to agree with some of what you say, but our party is democratic, I guess for the same reasons the Lib Dems piled lots of resources into Brighton Pavilion.... All Parties try to give their voters a chance to vote everywhere. Just because a Party has no chance of winning is no excuse for not standing! If so, then why did the Lib Dems stand all over the country? What type of Democracy are you wanting to live under?
Burnt Oak and Oakleigh were unrepresentative by the Greens through lack of human resources and time, that's all, and Mill Hill was not treated differently. I think we can agree the Fib Dem party is a bigger political group in Barnet, hence your comments are a form of bullying towards a smaller weaker one. I hope you feel proud of yourself.
I have admired your endless stream of witty writings over the years, but instead of putting your obvious literary talents to good use, say writing a thriller based on the corrupt practices in local politics, your outpourings are becoming progressively odious and tiresome as the months roll on.
Continue throwing the first toys from the pram on various subjects if you wish to, in order to elicit anger and comment from your targets, but don't whine when people find your particular brand of logic and reasoning skewed and return the insults.
You lost seats in Mill Hill because not enough people voted Lib Dem. Look at the National trends. The Green Party suffered in a similar way. People who vote Green Party do not necessarily vote Lib Dem if there’s no choice.
To now turn on the Green Party is somehow... Dismoric (a new word meaning having difficulty in accepting political reality and blaming everyone else)
There, the toy has been tossed back into the pram it first emerged from. Try and hang on to it this time Rog. Maybe the word Blog should be changed to Bleat?
Oh, and good luck to your lot in running the country with the Tories.... Why can't you just rejoice at that news?
Donald,
The link I posted was to a letter you wrote to the Hendon Times. Are you saying they made the letter up?
If the blog is as odious, crap and boring as you claim, then no one will read it.
You seem to feel that the Green Party is beyond criticism. Given that I've criticised Tory, Labour and Lib Dems here in the past, why should I lay off the Greens? I even criticise the Pope even though I'm a Catholic, so why should I lay off you?
You claim that you didn't stand in Burnt Oak due to "Time and lack of resources" yet trumpet the "20,388" people who supported you in the letter which you claim the Hendon Times made up. Can't have it both ways Donny Boy.
I stated that you should have stood in Burnt Oak if you wanted to be taken seriously. It appears you cannot bring yourself to give a straight answer, yet call me every name under the sun for writing a couple of blogs deriding your party.
As I said above, I've written hundreds of blogs about green related issues and you have never so much as added a comment before. If the greens in Mill Hill had been at the forefront of community action to improve the environment, I'd have a different view of you guys, but you do nothing until the elections come along and then pull the aren't we marvellous act.
You show me where you've done anything useful in Mill Hill? All you ever do is jump on bandwagons when it's election time. It's a free country and that is your right, as is your right to squeal when big nasty bloggers criticise you, but it just confirms to me all of my suspicions about the Green Party in Barnet
Ha, ha, ha. He who squeals loudeth loses the plot... I think the words enough, rope and hang yourself are implied in your replies.
If your blog wasn't so brilliantly argumentative, then people wouldn't read it in their countless droves would they? Excellent work!
It's also fantastic that over time you've criticised every party and take delight in upsetting people; what a legacy. You're nothing if but fair. The Lib Dems must be very happy to have you on board, especially at election time. Whooo, whooo; now where are those buffers?
This could run and run Rog, but what's the point? As my gran would say: you can't argue with Lib Dem fool. (Even one who jumps on their own political bandwagon late in the day)
Oh, I hear there's a seat going in Zimbabwe North, why not try for it Rog? Don't worry about small parties standing there against you; they can be dealt with...
I have a life,
Au Revoir!
Donald,
You are quite right, I take great delight in upsetting people, especially those such as you and Brian Coleman, who are bumped up with their own sense of self importance.
I am slightly disturbed by your mocking of Zimbabwe. I wonder why this of all places is a place you choose to mock?
Maybe as you say, I'm a Lib Dem fool, but I wouldn't treat the people in the poorest ward in Barnet with the contempt you have or treat the people in one of the most deprived countries in the world with the mocking disdain you have shown. It disgusts me and if that's your life, that you are so proud of, you are welcome to it.
I don't care what you think of me, but I think you should apologise to the people of Zimbabwe for choosing their plight as a method of ridicule.
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